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sboom
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Bullets Reply with quote

It's impossible to change the default bullets, and even the proposed management of bullets lists and numbering through Style and/or template doesn't solve the problem in an easy way.

I'm very disappointed to have to go back to MS; please call me if you ever solve this issue.
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jeanweber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you can change the default bullets. It's just not obvious how to do so. And then, after you change the bullets, if you want to make your new bullets into the default for future documents, you have to save your document as a template, then make that template the default template.

EDIT: See also this thread in the Impress Forum for thesolution to a similar problem in Impress:
http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=185105#185105
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ftack
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean

Could you provide some detail on how to change the default bullets? Can you indeed have the "numbering and bullets" button use different bullets? I am an Ooo user since version 1.0.0 and that is still a mystery to me. For this reason, I am exclusively using numbering styles for bullets rather than the bullets on/off button and Format - Numbering and bullets.
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ftack
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just stumbled on this thread http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=46054&highlight= It would seem that relying on macros is the only way to change the bullets.
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yuki
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can put a different button in the toolbar, the one saying "Bullets and Numbering" rather than "Bullets On/Off." It is an extra click, but then you really can have what you like.
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jeanweber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ftack wrote:
Could you provide some detail on how to change the default bullets? Can you indeed have the "numbering and bullets" button use different bullets? I just stumbled on this thread http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=46054&highlight=
It would seem that relying on macros is the only way to change the bullets.

No, you do not need a macro. Yes, you can make the Bullets On/Off button use a bullet of your choice. When I first started the thread you referenced, I wasn't sure how to change the default bullet, but foxcole told me how. The "how" seems to have got lost in that thread, so I will give it here and then update that thread too.

1) In Writer, place the cursor in a paragraph and click the Bullets On/Off button on the toolbar to show the current default bullet.

2) From the menu bar, choose Format > Bullets and Numbering. You can either choose a bullet from the Bullets tab of the dialog, or go to the Options tab for more choices.

3) On the Options tab, select Level 1, be sure "Numbering" is set to "Bullet", and click the [...] button next to Character. On the Special Characters dialog, choose a font and a character and click OK to return to the Bullets and Numbering dialog. Set the bullets for the other levels in a similar way, then click OK.

The new bullet character will now show on this paragraph. If you go to any other paragraph and click the Bullets On/Off button, it should display the new bullet character too. (One exception might be if the paragraph has some custom styling that over-rides the default bullet; I have not done enough testing to be sure about the possible interactions.)

Note: if you want the bullet to be a different size or colour, go to the Styles and Formatting window, choose the Character Styles icon at the top of that window, right-click on Bullets and choose Modify, go to the Font tab of the Character Style dialog and choose a size and/or go to the Font Effects tab and choose a colour.

Important
The changes made above apply *only* to the current document. To make them the default for other other documents, save the current document as a template (you can delete all the content before doing this), and make that template the default template. (See the chapter "Working with Templates" in the Writer Guide for details.
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sivazh
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this such an issue? How could this one point make someone want to dump OOo and go back to Microsoft Office??

When you start your document, just go to Format-Bullets and Numbering. Set the bullet style you want and click OK.

Presto.

If you want to change the bullet style for different bullets in the document, do the same thing.
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jeanweber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue isn't one of manually changing bullets in a document. The issue is changing the default bullets for all documents. How to do this is not obvious to newcomers to OOo, although it is easy once you know how. It's also an issue of setting things up to work for a group of people so everyone does uses the same bullets without having to manually change them on each new document.
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sboom
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some comment: Sivazh, unfortunately usage of bullets is a must for me, both in Writer and Impress, not a nice-to-have; Jeanweber correctly points out the issues and I would add that the action to change the bullets is simple but you should change them MANUALLY very often (I suspect every time I change a paragraph). Searching in the forum this issue pop up quite often but has always left unresolved; I don't understand why such a flexible suite is neglecting this functionality.

Back to the issue: Jeanweber, the method you're proposing doesn't work (I would bet my tennis rackets) at least for me: my settings desappear every time I change a paragraph.
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jeanweber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sboom wrote:
Jeanweber, the method you're proposing doesn't work (I would bet my tennis rackets) at least for me: my settings desappear every time I change a paragraph.

Hmm... it's possible you've run into a bug. I seem to recall this feature being a bit unpredictable, but as I haven't used it much, I don't really know whether it's because of something I do, or something buggy in the program.

One thing that often works for me is to put the cursor in the problem paragraph and then click twice on the Bullets On/Off button on the toolbar to turn off the bullet and then turn it on again.

If you have a non-confidential document that you can send me, I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can spot anything.

What operating system and version of OOo are you using?
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robina
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apply the bullets using one List Style from the Styles and Formatting window, and also modify the bullets from it. To change the font size or color, I use the Character Style as explained above.
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BillP
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ability to change the default bullet is a low priority feature. Vote for this issue::

http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9437
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sboom
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ jeanweber: I confirm that after having tried many times your method doesn't work on my system (Windows XP and OO 2.0.2): it looses the settings when I change the paragraph . Also I really appreciate your offer to send you the document but I'm not using a specific one: I just make my trials on a blank document.
@ BillP: thank you and I'm starting to cross my fingers
@ all: thanks for your suggestions.

Putting toghether what I've read and what you're telling me I believe the best (and may be only) way to manage bullets is through Styles. I've taken the way mentioned by swingkyd in this td ( http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=46054&highlight= ) slightly modified that I recap here for everybody benefit:

1) open a document and position the cursor
2) through the dialog format -> bullets and numbering -> position and options tab set the bullets I want for every level.
3) open the Styles and Formatting window (Format -> Styles and Formatting or, shortly, F11 -> List styles tab)
4) Click on the icon to the top-right (New Style from selection), click on the New Style from selection option and give a name to the Style (i.e. XXX). From now on you can double-click on this style to start your customized bullet list.

You can also associate a macro to the action: click on Format -> Styles and Formatting -> List styles, doubleclick on XXX style. If you use Tools->Macro->record macro the recorded macro is:

sub <here the name you gave to the macro>
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem define variables
dim document as object
dim dispatcher as object
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem get access to the document
document = ThisComponent.CurrentController.Frame
dispatcher = createUnoService("com.sun.star.frame.DispatchHelper")

rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args1(0) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args1(0).Name = "DesignerDialog"
args1(0).Value = true

dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:DesignerDialog", "", 0, args1())

rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args2(1) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args2(0).Name = "Template"
args2(0).Value = "xxx"
args2(1).Name = "Family"
args2(1).Value = 16

dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:StyleApply", "", 0, args2())

rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args3(0) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args3(0).Name = "DesignerDialog"
args3(0).Value = false

dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:DesignerDialog", "", 0, args3())


end sub

Cutting and pasting swingkid's post:

Add this code to your very own package under:
Tools->Macros-> Organize Macros -> OpenOffice.org Basic
Create your own macro name (maybe ApplyList)
Copy and paste that code after you "Edit" it.
Then,
Tools->Customize->Toolbars (tab)
Then select "Formatting" under the dropdown menu.
Then, "Add" ->"Openoffice.org Macros" ->"My Macros"-> "Standard"-> "Module1"->"ApplyList" (<--- or whatever you named it)
Now, you still have to remove the existing "Numbering On/Off" buttons and re-assign the icon to your new script that you just layed out.


Btw I don't know how to implement the last sentence.

Rather than associate a button to the macro you can also associate a key (Tools -> Customize -> keyboard tab)
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noko
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Bullets Reply with quote

Hi All,

I've done everything as jeanweber wrote, but this doesn't work.
Even if I open the template (which I declared as the default template and where all the settings for bullet style were made) and switch bullets/on I get the ugly big bullet (Font: Tahoma, Character: U+25CF).
When I change the bullet style, this takes only effect for the actual series of bullet-paragraphs - when bullets are set off and then on again in a following paragraph, I'm once again there where I began: bulletIt set to Tahoma/U+25CF.
Seems that the settings I make in the "bullets and numbering" do not cause anything.

norbert
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jordihs
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, the issue is not so much about the ability to change the bullets, but rather to the ugliness of the default bullet in windows. Having good defaults is very important in any productivity application and the windows default bullet is ridiculous. You can't make a 'serious' office document with those balloons and present it to your customer. So, now everybody asks how to change that. But the issue is that with MS office, few people need to change the bullets because they look good enough.
The Issue 9437 is titled 'Change default bullet type' but the way it's explained it seems what we need is a way to change the default bullet when it should simply (IMHO) be a matter of changing the factory-default bullet to one that isn't plain ridiculous in windows.
I don't want to download openoffice and automatically change the default bullet. I want to download openoffice and use it as is. This little thing affects the perceived quality of the software in a huge manner. The end user doesn't see the great software behind the curtains. What they see is that the simplest thing you could ask for just doesn't work.
These 45mm bullets are blowing openoffice's head off! Wink
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