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numbering/lettering and spacing
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bigj480
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: numbering/lettering and spacing Reply with quote

Sorry if this is a "noobish" problem, but I'm trying to letter/number a document as follows:

A.
(1)
(2)
(3)
B.
C.
(1)
(2)
D.

The text in this document has a set margin on both sides(justified). I tried to accomplish the format I'm looking for by using tab. The problem is that the space created by tab changes to fit a given number of words in that line of text, it doesn't stay consistent. Also, anything entered after the number has it's left margin increased, making the paragraph different than the non-numbered ones. I also can't find a numbering option to make it bold "A." then normal "(1)".

I NEED:

(consistent space) || A. or (1) || (smaller consistent space) || text ||

WITHOUT changing the margins for the "justified" format.

I don't know if I did a good enough job of explaining it, if I need to explain it better let me know. Confused
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BillP
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't use tabs to set the spacing. Use Format > Bullets & Numbering > Position.

To get the bold characters, use Format > Bullets & Numbering > Options. Select level 1 and change the Character Style: to "Strong Emphasis".
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks like a outline problem. You, probably, will have to edit the heading styles to fit your needs including the Next Style under the Page tab.

To get the numbering layout that you want try:

Tools > Outline numbering >
Select which heading levels you want to use.
Select Level 1 and pick a heading level
Then select the numbering format [ A]
Select Caracter Style and set it to Strong Emphasis.

Select Level2 and a heading level
Add the ( before
Add the ) after.
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bigj480
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Bill, lets see. Using your method I can get consistent spacing but I have to go back and change the number to a letter, that's the only way I know to get a capital letter followed by a period. That gets rid of the bold format so I have to re-bold it. This would work fine but, as before, it enlarges the left margin of the paragraph that comes after it. Very close.

Now jrkrideau's method:
Tools > Outline numbering > DONE
Select which heading levels you want to use.
Select Level 1 and pick a heading level

OK, under "Level" I select "1", under "Paragraph Style" I select "Heading 1". You state to pick a heading level twice, I'm confused on this point, I assume it was a typo. I also want to note that the "level" and "paragraph style" selections seem to effect each other. Either way, my selection is "Level 1" and Paragraph Style 1".
Then select the numbering format [ A] OK, Number is "A, B, C, ...".
Select Caracter Style and set it to Strong Emphasis. Done.

Select Level2 and a heading level OK, I selected Level 2 from the list at the very left of the window. The Paragraph style is automatically changed to "Heading 2" so I just left it alone.
Add the ( before
Add the ) after.
OK, I added"(" in the before and ")" in the after boxes. I see how that works, heading 2 will be numbers with a "(" before and a ")" after. So (1), (2), etc. will be the result. After this I click "OK".

Nothing happens, so I assume I just changed settings. Now I just need to know ho to actually implement the numbering.Confused If I click the "numbering" button at the top I get a non-bold "1." with the typical expansion of the left margin. Also, how do I select how many letter headings to add and which ones get number headings after them? Do I do this and THEN add text behind the Headings? How about adjusting spacing before the heading and between the heading an the start of the text? Format>Bullets and Numbering? Again, sorry for the basic questions, I TRULY appreciate your time and patience. I feel I'm almost there.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigj480 wrote:
OK Bill, lets see. Using your method I can get consistent spacing but I have to go back and change the number to a letter, that's the only way I know to get a capital letter followed by a period. That gets rid of the bold format so I have to re-bold it. This would work fine but, as before, it enlarges the left margin of the paragraph that comes after it. Very close.

Now jrkrideau's method:
Tools > Outline numbering > DONE
Select which heading levels you want to use.
Select Level 1 and pick a heading level

OK, under "Level" I select "1", under "Paragraph Style" I select "Heading 1". You state to pick a heading level twice, I'm confused on this point, I assume it was a typo.

Not exactly a typo. I just forgot that most people don't have a lot of alterative header styles that I have created in my basic template. Sorry.


Quote:
I also want to note that the "level" and "paragraph style" selections seem to effect each other. Either way, my selection is "Level 1" and Paragraph Style 1".
Then select the numbering format [ A] OK, Number is "A, B, C, ...".
Select Caracter Style and set it to Strong Emphasis. Done.

Select Level2 and a heading level OK, I selected Level 2 from the list at the very left of the window. The Paragraph style is automatically changed to "Heading 2" so I just left it alone.
Add the ( before
Add the ) after.
OK, I added"(" in the before and ")" in the after boxes. I see how that works, heading 2 will be numbers with a "(" before and a ")" after. So (1), (2), etc. will be the result. After this I click "OK".

Nothing happens, so I assume I just changed settings. Now I just need to know ho to actually implement the numbering.Confused If I click the "numbering" button at the top I get a non-bold "1." with the typical expansion of the left margin. Also, how do I select how many letter headings to add and which ones get number headings after them? Do I do this and THEN add text behind the Headings? How about adjusting spacing before the heading and between the heading an the start of the text? Format>Bullets and Numbering? Again, sorry for the basic questions, I TRULY appreciate your time and patience. I feel I'm almost there.


I am not sure where the problem is. If you have the Headers already to go, just place the cursor in the target text area and click on the header and you should get the A or the (1) depending on which header you chose.

Here is a simple example file that should show you what I intended.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=bac721c22efe2478d2db6fb9a8902bda
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JohnV
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put another way the numbering is applied by selecting the paragraph style associated with each outline level. So use Heading 1 for A, B, C, etc. and Heading 2 for (1)..., etc.
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BillP
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigj480 wrote:
OK Bill, lets see. Using your method I can get consistent spacing but I have to go back and change the number to a letter, that's the only way I know to get a capital letter followed by a period. That gets rid of the bold format so I have to re-bold it. This would work fine but, as before, it enlarges the left margin of the paragraph that comes after it. Very close.

The paragraph may indented from the margin. The indent can be set in the Bullets and Numbering dialog.

Here's what I did:
Select Format > Bullets and Numbering.
Select the Options tab on the Bullets and Numbering dialog.
Select Level 1.
Change Numbering: to "A, B, C, ...".
Put a period in the After: box.
In Character Style: select "Strong Emphasis".
Select Level 2.
Change Numbering: to "1, 2, 3, ...".
Put ( in the Before: box and ) in the After: box.
In Character Style: select "none".
Select the Position tab on the Bullets and Numbering dialog.
Select Level 1.
Set Indent: and Spacing to text: to 0. Set Minimum space numbering <-> text to .15".
Select Level 2.
Set the same settings as for Level 1.
Close the Bullets and Numbering dialog.

The level 1 numbering is now A., B., C., ... (bold). The level 2 numbering is now (1), (2), (3), ... (normal). All lines in the numbered paragraph are aligned at the left margin no indent). You can switch from level 1 to level 2 using TAB and SHIFT+TAB.

To use Outline Numbering instead of a numbered list, make the same settings in the Outline Numbering dialog (Tools > Outline Numbering) instead of the Bullets and Numbering dialog. Apply the Heading 1 paragraph style to level 1 paragraphs. Apply the Heading 2 paragraph style to level 2 paragraphs.
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bigj480
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrkrideau wrote:
bigj480 wrote:

I also want to note that the "level" and "paragraph style" selections seem to effect each other. Either way, my selection is "Level 1" and Paragraph Style 1".
Then select the numbering format [ A] OK, Number is "A, B, C, ...".
Select Caracter Style and set it to Strong Emphasis. Done.

Select Level2 and a heading level OK, I selected Level 2 from the list at the very left of the window. The Paragraph style is automatically changed to "Heading 2" so I just left it alone.
Add the ( before
Add the ) after.
OK, I added"(" in the before and ")" in the after boxes. I see how that works, heading 2 will be numbers with a "(" before and a ")" after. So (1), (2), etc. will be the result. After this I click "OK".

Nothing happens, so I assume I just changed settings. Now I just need to know ho to actually implement the numbering.Confused If I click the "numbering" button at the top I get a non-bold "1." with the typical expansion of the left margin. Also, how do I select how many letter headings to add and which ones get number headings after them? Do I do this and THEN add text behind the Headings? How about adjusting spacing before the heading and between the heading an the start of the text? Format>Bullets and Numbering? Again, sorry for the basic questions, I TRULY appreciate your time and patience. I feel I'm almost there.


I am not sure where the problem is. If you have the Headers already to go, just place the cursor in the target text area and click on the header and you should get the A or the (1) depending on which header you chose.

Here is a simple example file that should show you what I intended.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=bac721c22efe2478d2db6fb9a8902bda


I don't know exactly what you mean by "have the Headers already to go", sorry, that may be my problem. I have never used this program or any like it before so I'm a bit lost. The file that you uploaded makes it easier for me to visualize that your end result was(Thank you for going through the trouble!), but I didn't quite understand the directions. It's also not exactly what I was looking for, I would upload the PDF that I'm converting via copy and paste (long story) but it contains personal info. What I need is the number or letter indented quite a bit without the text that comes after it being indented the same amount.

In your file, where the beginning of the line "the next paragraph should be the next level" is even with with the front of the "A". I need it to be all of the way to the left, as if it were unnumbered.

JohnV wrote:
Put another way the numbering is applied by selecting the paragraph style associated with each outline level. So use Heading 1 for A, B, C, etc. and Heading 2 for (1)..., etc.


Right, and to "tie" a numbering style to a heading style you do the following?

Push "F11"
Right click the heading number you wish to use and click modify
Click "Numbering" tab then select the "Numbering Style" you you have already changed to work and click "OK".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also tried this method and came close.

Format>Style and formating(F11)
Clicked "List Styles" button
Right click "Numbering 1" and click "modify"
Clicked "Options" tab, "Level 1"
Setup for A., B., C. and click "OK"
Right click "Numbering 2" and click "modify"
Clicked "Options" tab, "Level 1"
Setup for (1), (2), (3)

Now all I have to do is put my cursor in the paragraph I wish to number and double click "Numbering 1" or "Numbering 2". Woks fine, except I can't add an indention before the "A." or "(1)" without also indenting the text. Because "spacing to text" can only go down to zero, which aligns it with the (already indented) number/letter, the text is indented the same amount.

I'll respond to bill's post after I grab a bite to eat.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bigj480"]
jrkrideau wrote:
bigj480 wrote:


I don't know exactly what you mean by "have the Headers already to go", sorry, that may be my problem.

Sorry what I meant here was that you need to format the Heading styles to get the font and formating you want.


Quote:
I have never used this program or any like it before so I'm a bit lost.


Have a look at the manuals here for some good help http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/oooauthors2/index.html


The file that you uploaded makes it easier for me to visualize that your end result was(Thank you for going through the trouble!), but I didn't quite understand the directions.

Let's see if I can get this a bit plainer. It's not all that hard to do but it is confusing the first few times you try it.

The first thing to do is format the paragraph styles that you are going to use. I have chosen Heading 1 and Heading 2. Any two heading levels would do.



To format the Headers

Open the stylist—(Press F11 to bring it up)
Right click on Heading 1 and select Modify.
Under the Organizer tab
Go to Next Style and select Heading 2
Under the Font tab
Select the font and formating you want for the A B C level.
Press OK
Repeat for Heading 2 , seting Next Style to Heading 2


Tools > Outline Numbering
Set up Level 1 outline
Select Level 1
Select Number as A,B,C
Set up Level 2
Select Level 2
Select number as 1,2,3
In the box Before type (
In the box After type )
Press Ok

Okay this should do it.

Quote:
It's also not exactly what I was looking for, I would upload the PDF that I'm converting via copy and paste (long story) but it contains personal info. What I need is the number or letter indented quite a bit without the text that comes after it being indented the same amount. In your file, where the beginning of the line "the next paragraph should be the next level" is even with with the front of the "A". I need it to be all of the way to the left, as if it were unnumbered.



I got fancy Smile If you want to see what is happening in my file go
Tools > Outline Numbering > Postion > change the Space to text from 0.80 to 0.00 and you've got it.

I hope this helps.

Ah off to the rugby game. Very Happy
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Last edited by jrkrideau on Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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BillP
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigj480 wrote:
I also tried this method and came close.

Format>Style and formating(F11)
Clicked "List Styles" button
Right click "Numbering 1" and click "modify"
Clicked "Options" tab, "Level 1"
Setup for A., B., C. and click "OK"
Right click "Numbering 2" and click "modify"
Clicked "Options" tab, "Level 1"
Setup for (1), (2), (3)

Now all I have to do is put my cursor in the paragraph I wish to number and double click "Numbering 1" or "Numbering 2". Woks fine, except I can't add an indention before the "A." or "(1)" without also indenting the text. Because "spacing to text" can only go down to zero, which aligns it with the (already indented) number/letter, the text is indented the same amount.

The first line indent needs to be defined in the paragraph style. Try this:
    Format > Styles and Formatting.
    Click the Paragraph Styles Icon.
    Right-click the Default style and select New.
    On the Paragraph Style dialog:
    Click the Organizer tab and rename the new style.
    Click the Indents and Spacing tab and set the first line indent to 0.5".
    Click the Numbering tab and set the Numbering style to Numbering 1.
    Click OK to close the Paragraph Style dialog.
    On the Styles and Formatting Window, select the List Styles icon.
    Right-click the Numbering 1 style and select Modify.
    Select the Options tab on the Numbering Style dialog.
    Select Level 1.
    Change Numbering: to "A, B, C, ...".
    Put a period in the After: box.
    In Character Style: select "Strong Emphasis".
    Select Level 2.
    Change Numbering: to "1, 2, 3, ...".
    Put ( in the Before: box and ) in the After: box.
    In Character Style: select "none".
    Select the Position tab on the Numbering Style dialog.
    Select Level 1.
    Set Indent: and Spacing to text: to 0. Set Minimum space numbering <-> text to .15".
    Select Level 2.
    Set the same settings as for Level 1.
    Click OK to close the Numbering Style dialog.

That should do it. This method requires only one paragraph style and one numbering style. If you want to use two numbering styles, you will have to create a second paragraph style for the second numbering style.
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bigj480
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's been awhile but I just want to thank everyone for their help again. I still haven't gotten it right but I don't think it's worth your time to spell it out for me. The funny this is that I'm not computer illiterate or anything, I'm on my computer quite a bit and I'm pretty proficient in some programs, like Photoshop. Apparently I'm not meant to use this program so I'm just going to quit being so picky and let the text under the lettering be indented. Unless one of you wants to help me out and do it for me, I could host the file. Confused I could even send you a few bucks via paypal.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigj480 wrote:
I know it's been awhile but I just want to thank everyone for their help again. I still haven't gotten it right but I don't think it's worth your time to spell it out for me. The funny this is that I'm not computer illiterate or anything, I'm on my computer quite a bit and I'm pretty proficient in some programs, like Photoshop. Apparently I'm not meant to use this program so I'm just going to quit being so picky and let the text under the lettering be indented. Unless one of you wants to help me out and do it for me, I could host the file. Confused I could even send you a few bucks via paypal.


Just stick the file on a server somewhere and someone here will take a look at it.

It is very easy to do what you want, but it is quite different from any other wp programme that I have used and it can take a while to figure it out. I think it took me about a week to figure out the differences between outline numbering and lists Sad

You, also, may have some earlier extraneous formatting there that needs to be weeded out. That can be daunting especially for a newbie.


Handy places to post a file: mediafire http://www.mediafire.com/ or mytempdir.com http://www.mytempdir.com
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bigj480
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrkrideau wrote:
Just stick the file on a server somewhere and someone here will take a look at it.

It is very easy to do what you want, but it is quite different from any other wp programme that I have used and it can take a while to figure it out. I think it took me about a week to figure out the differences between outline numbering and lists Sad

You, also, may have some earlier extraneous formatting there that needs to be weeded out. That can be daunting especially for a newbie.


Handy places to post a file: mediafire http://www.mediafire.com/ or mytempdir.com http://www.mytempdir.com


I think you are right about the earlier formating, but who knows. I was going to say that I didn't want everybody looking at it because it has personal info, but then I realized that I couldn't host it then. I'd have to send it as an attachment in an email or something. If it was just the OTD file I could take that private info out but I was going to include the original PDF as an example of what I was looking for. I guess I'll take the private info out of the OTD and host it, I'll post a link when done.

Thank you for the reply, I'm sure it's frustrating to try to help someone who just gives up and asks for even more help. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigj480 wrote:

I think you are right about the earlier formating, but who knows. I was going to say that I didn't want everybody looking at it because it has personal info, but then I realized that I couldn't host it then. I'd have to send it as an attachment in an email or something. If it was just the OTD file I could take that private info out but I was going to include the original PDF as an example of what I was looking for. I guess I'll take the private info out of the OTD and host it, I'll post a link when done.


Thank you for the reply, I'm sure it's frustrating to try to help someone who just gives up and asks for even more help. Sorry.[/quote]

Yes that is the best idea. The information is not likely to be important as long as we can see the formatting.

No problem about the questions. We all have these problems and understand how difficult is can be to get a solution. And of course, once we see the solution it usually looks easy !

Somewhere I have a quote about Napier the inventor of logarithms and and for whom Napier's bones are named. A visitior arrived at Napiers house and discussed Napier's discovery. Very, very, roughly paraphrasing it we get to the statement : These logarithms are such a simple idea I don't see why anyone could not have discovered them". Duh!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I hosted the file but wanted to note a few things.

    I deleted any spaces around the numbering because they were not consistent. If you use spaces or tab they shrink or expand to fit because of the "justified" style.

    I deleted any indentations in the paragraphs, they were not consistent Because I used the tab button. I need a relatively large indentation, about 1" when printed.

    Any numbering, list or paragraph style changes that I made should not have been saved. I don't think I saved after my failed attempts.

    The paragraph under "ARTICLE IV - REVOCABILITY" is spaced differently than the paragraph above it. It is not double spaced. I need all text to be spaced like the text under "W I T N E S S E T H:" I did fix a few of them by deleting the space between two paragraphs and then spacing them back out.

    I need a uniform 1" margin that goes all the way around the page, top, bottom and both sides. Right now there are only margins on the sides.

    I need the pages numbered.


http://www.mediafire.com/?t2gwlm0e0he
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