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billbc
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to say that the deletions have been done very rapidly this time round, but that I then get an automatic mail reminder with a link to a non-existent page. That's almost as frustrating as reading another idiot posting. I definitely think registration for posting would reduce the site's vulnerability to spamming without giving "honest John" & co. any hassle.

As for "stupid questions" I would agree that they are OK. If you don't know, ask. (Although Ii must admit to at least one slightly sarcastic reply, for which I herewith apologize once again!) Even if the answer is already somewhere on the site, if the answer is so obvious, it doesn't take too long to put up a reply.

In general, I keep coming back to the forum for a breath of fresh air. New questions, new ideas, sometimes challenges - elsewhere you would have to pay for this as a kind of therapy!
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Michael A. Kearsley
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately if someone registers and then is removed they can then come along and register using a different email address as happens in Yahoogroups (to ensure security to the maximum possible it would be neccessary to ban the use of certain email addresses (Hotmail, Yahoo, Lycos etc... that permit relaying and are free to setup.) and to require verifiable server addresses only to ensure that messages - Yahoogroups who require registration also has a severe flaw in that spoofed email addresses (even for Yahoo email addresses) are not rejected if they are a correct address for someone in that group - now, I imagine that there is probably better security here than at Yahoogroups but these are important things to bear in mind.

Another way to do this is, unfortunately to require a registration fee which will put a lot of spammers off.

Some Yahoogroups also require all messages to approved by a moderator before they appear in a group. This means more work for the moderators but does deter spammers to some extent.

What there needs to be is much more severe penalties for people who abuse use of the internet - virus writers should be broken on the wheel and burned at the stake, spammers should be given hard labour with long sentences. I don't say this should only happen to spammers but generally a tough penal policy and the use of torure and execution in prisons could help improve society as a whole by having a deterrent effect and by eliminating the people doing it (after all if someone is locked in some dungeon or dead then they will find it difficult to send viruses or spam - or do anything else wicked for that matter.) I regularily email my views to members of my family, friends, in to radio discussions and to government ministers.
cwchia wrote:
I think Ian and myself were loitering around when the attack started. I first have about 10 replies alert email and the replies are all spams. I then logout and login again so that those spams will not show as unread posts to me. During the half hour or so I have another hundreds of posts pouring in. Other then sending distress email and PM to the moderators, Ian and myself can only sit there and do nothing but watching the %&*&$@#$*)&*^ spammer SH*T here. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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DannyB
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael A. Kearsley wrote:
Unfortunately if someone registers and then is removed they can then come along and register using a different email address as happens in Yahoogroups (to ensure security to the maximum possible it would be neccessary to ban the use of certain email addresses (Hotmail, Yahoo, Lycos etc... that permit relaying and are free to setup.) and to require verifiable server addresses only to ensure that messages


One problem with e-mail addresses.

Since I run my own Linux box with a domain name and static IP, I have an infinite number of disposable e-mail addresses. Banning by e-mail may not be effective against a determined spammer.

Banning by IP would work against me if I were a spammer.

Of course, my hypothetical countermesaure would be to constantly change IP's. Just use a DHCP address over broadband. Whenever I need to change IP's, just renew my DHCP. (Or heaven forbid -- dare I mention it -- reboot my Linux box!) Then just go to my DNS box (which would have to be a different box) and change the IP's of my domain name(s). Then continue spamming.

Ultimately, a determined spammer would do a DDOS attack, such as what was recently perpretrated against OOoForum the last couple days.
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Guest 2.0
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Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, there seems to be a spam still in this thread. It does appear that the spammers are indeed willing to register in order to continue spamming Sad

To clarify, and I sincerely apologize if I am wrong, but the reply above by "noor65" contains links to spammish, useless referrer pages. DO NOT click them directly, since that will only confirm that this is a viable vehicle for their spam. Copy/paste the link into a new window.

This is ridiculous Rolling Eyes However, there is another webforum that I frequent with a very smart policy with regards to who can post what and how soon: http://www.cgtalk.com. If you are not registered, you cannot post anything, only read. Up to your first 5 posts, a moderator must review your posts before they reach the actual board. A similar plan here might be the only hope of keeping these jerks at bay. I seriously doubt that they are capable of or willing to go to the trouble of posting 5 useful messages just to be able to spam afterwards.
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Michael A. Kearsley
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that unless someone knew about the sites beforehand they could be links to anywhere and even if they are for what they say they are clicking on them is probably no better an idea than picking up the Yellow pages and sticking a pin in at random - far better to use a search engine to see what choices there are.

Guest 2.0 wrote:
DO NOT click them directly, since that will only confirm that this is a viable vehicle for their spam. Copy/paste the link into a new window.
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r_vinoya
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Joined: 03 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a way to report this spammers (the website is www.gofolks dot com). Can they be persecuted under a certain law?

Why do virus makers gets arrested while this spammers continue to make spam?


To the spammers;
Can you give free SPAM (the can food, i mean)?
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draude
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went ahead and deleted that spam message in this thread (from noor65). Spammers will get no quarter here. I also edited out the link in your post r_vinoya.

One of the reasons spammers provide links here beyond the obvious ones is to improve their site rankings in Google. The more sites link to your site, the higher the page rank and the more hits they will likely get. Google spiders and indexes thousands of OOoForum pages. Each time it finds a spammer link, it will add incrementally to that link's page rank. That's why spam on these forums should always be deleted to avoid spammers benefiting in any way from their actions. And please don't link to spammer sites in any of your own postings. That will only incent them to spam more.

Oh and by the way, registration is now required to post.

Cheers,
Ed
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Michael A. Kearsley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viruses cause far greater problems than SPAM although of course there is an overlap in the people doing these things and many of the spammers are using trojans to get information on people so that they can bombard them with SPAM.

Personally I think that people who write viruses should be publicly broken on the wheel, disembowelled and then burned at the stake - the best way to stop the spammers would be to smash their hands to pieces with a hammer.

r_vinoya wrote:
Is there a way to report this spammers (the website is www.gofolks dot com). Can they be persecuted under a certain law?

Why do virus makers gets arrested while this spammers continue to make spam?


To the spammers;
Can you give free SPAM (the can food, i mean)?
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billbc
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that altogether viruses are a greater problem than spam, but as far as a forum is concerned, it's spam that ruins everything. For instance, if I get a mail reminder that there is a new post on a thread I've been involved with, I may just grin and shrug my shoulders if there is one spam post instead of something genuine. The second time I will be distinctly annoyed. After the third time, I may not bother to look. That way, we can really kill off interest in the forum. So registration fo all postings is really the only way to keep the forum active and useful. Blowing off steam at the spammers may help us individually to deal with the frustration, but it won't help to make the problem go away. IP addresses won't help much, as many providers give their customers different IP's every time they log in.
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Michael A. Kearsley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far as the law goes though it is easier to identify viruses than SPAM because a virus is identifiable as a virus by what it can do, but what might be SPAM in one place might not be SPAM somewhere else - that's the main reason that it is far easier to convict virus writers (which is what the post I was referring to was complaining about) as well as there obviously having been more resources put into dealing with virus writers.

Surely one way to get around the problem that SPAM results in the repeat notifications might be if there could be an option for the notification to be online only or something so where a large amount of SPAM had been posted at one time then at least it wouldn't clog up people's Inboxes.

Of course we can all lobby lawmakers for harsher penalties on spammers and more investment in tracking them down and if enough people do and it's a big enough issue politically then the politicians will make some response.

billbc wrote:
I agree that altogether viruses are a greater problem than spam, but as far as a forum is concerned, it's spam that ruins everything. For instance, if I get a mail reminder that there is a new post on a thread I've been involved with, I may just grin and shrug my shoulders if there is one spam post instead of something genuine. The second time I will be distinctly annoyed. After the third time, I may not bother to look. That way, we can really kill off interest in the forum. So registration fo all postings is really the only way to keep the forum active and useful. Blowing off steam at the spammers may help us individually to deal with the frustration, but it won't help to make the problem go away. IP addresses won't help much, as many providers give their customers different IP's every time they log in.
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Cybb20
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As for "stupid questions" I would agree that they are OK. If you don't know, ask. (Although Ii must admit to at least one slightly sarcastic reply, for which I herewith apologize once again!) Even if the answer is already somewhere on the site, if the answer is so obvious, it doesn't take too long to put up a reply.

In general, I keep coming back to the forum for a breath of fresh air. New questions, new ideas, sometimes challenges - elsewhere you would have to pay for this as a kind of therapy!


Just wanted to say that I agree on all of this.
I always try to follow the rule that there are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
Sometimes questions from the ones that do not know anything are very very interesting although they sometimes are very simple, but it's most likely that of some of those simple things not any of the advanced users has ever thought. These are the discussions that often turn out to be the very best.
One thing that I am not willing to do is helping someone with all they have got to do, or what is called "homework". That's why I don't feel like posting when someone just gives his problem and requires a complete solution without any question-mark in his post.

About the spam:
6 years ago with the e-mail address: dr.flow@gmx.de (I just wanted to come up with something fanzy Wink ) spam was not a big deal at all, everything went fine, but in the last 1-2 years I don't really feel like checking it much anymore, it's like 400 spam-mails a week, providing me special offers for Viagra etc. etc.!
The whole thing is very sad, cause those guys that do spam are absolutely professional cause that way they earn money, cause some people still buy from it.
And now wireless networks coming into the play, I feel like this will expand a whole lot, cause then how would you be able to traceback the ones that did it. They just have to drive somewhere and make their DDOS wherever they are getting a good connection (and many wireless networks will make it very easy for them to just go somewhere and connect to it and make it).
I hope that more people know about these internet things and don't buy from special offers they get in their e-mail.

Christian
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