OpenOffice.org Forum at OOoForum.orgThe OpenOffice.org Forum
 
 [Home]   [FAQ]   [Search]   [Memberlist]   [Usergroups]   [Register
 [Profile]   [Log in to check your private messages]   [Log in

Can I open spreadsheet with design-mode already "off&qu

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OOoForum.org Forum Index -> OpenOffice.org Calc
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Can I open spreadsheet with design-mode already "off&qu Reply with quote

How do I configure things so the spreadsheet opens with design-mode already "off"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a button for this on the toolbar named "Form Design"
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the effort but that doesn't answer my question (My question wasn't "how do I turn off design-mode"). Here is the need I'm try to satisfy:

Newbies should be able to open a spreadsheet containing form-controls and use it immediately without being required to:
1) first learn how to make a toolbar appear, then
2) learn which toolbar to activate, and then
3) learn which icon to click on the toolbar to make form-controls work.

Let's think of the newbie users of our spreadsheets... How do we configure a spreadsheet so they can open it with design-mode already "off" (or automatically turns it off after it loads)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again: There is a button for this on the toolbar named "Form Design". It's the 12th button from the left.
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ken johnson
Super User
Super User


Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 2032
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am unable to reproduce your problem.
Even saving a spreadsheet with Design Mode On, after closing and re-opening it re-opens with Design Mode Off and controls working correctly.
The only thing I can think of is your User Profile is corrupt.
Try resetting your user profile, see here...
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=12426#p58403
Ken Johnson
_________________
If your problem has been solved please add "[Solved]" to the beginning of your first post title (edit button).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ken johnson wrote:
I am unable to reproduce your problem.
Even saving a spreadsheet with Design Mode On, after closing and re-opening it re-opens with Design Mode Off and controls working correctly.
The only thing I can think of is your User Profile is corrupt.
Try resetting your user profile, see here...
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=12426#p58403
Ken Johnson

Set the toggle option #12 on toolbar "Form Design" and your document will open in design mode.
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ken johnson
Super User
Super User


Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 2032
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Villeroy wrote:
Set the toggle option #12 on toolbar "Form Design" and your document will open in design mode.

Thanks Villeroy.
I wasn't aware of that button.
Ken Johnson
_________________
If your problem has been solved please add "[Solved]" to the beginning of your first post title (edit button).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D'oh! Thanks Villeroy, my bad.

Although this morning I created a workaround for others that is more robust anyway since it always opens the spreadsheet with design-mode off regardless of how it was saved. If a shared spreadsheet isn't idiot-proof, idiots *will* break it and send it on, and while this isn't 100% idiot proof (design-mode can still be temporarily enabled) it is better that allowing the ability to save it with design-mode pre-enabled:

1) Record a macro turning off the design-mode, and save it to your spreadsheet under the name "designModeOff". See below, "How to do step #1", if you don't know how to do this.
2) Select Tools-Customize, then highlight "Open Document", then click "Macro" button
3) Select your macro that you recorded in step 1, then click "Okay".
4) Save document.

How to do step #1 above:
1) Tools-Macros-Record
2) Deselect design-mode, ie - the 2nd icon from left on form-controls toolbar (note: you'll need this toolbar visible before you record this macro).
3) Click "Stop Recording" in the popup window.
4) In the newly-appeared dialog box:
4a) within "Save macro in" click the "+" at the left of the spreadsheet name
4b) drill down to the module, or create one (New-Module button) if one doesn't exist
4c) type "designModeOff" in the top-left text field of the dialog box and click "Save"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for what it's worth in my opinion (yeah, who cares right?) the design-mode should be always be pre-disabled by default and you should not be able to save the enabled state. That's essentially what my workaround (above) does. Just my two cents. Thanks again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davea0511 wrote:
And for what it's worth in my opinion (yeah, who cares right?) the design-mode should be always be pre-disabled by default and you should not be able to save the enabled state. That's essentially what my workaround (above) does. Just my two cents. Thanks again!

Before using a form you've got to design it, right? When you are done, you are the one to push the button and add the read-only flag to the document.
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Good point, but ... Reply with quote

Villeroy wrote:
[Before using a form you've got to design it, right?

Good point, although it seems like you're saving a click (actually you aren't, see #8 below)the process-argument actually helps supports my contention that the design-mode should be normally off, and that the ambiguously-labeled "Form Design" button should be removed. The process argument says: Make the process more consistent, intuitive, and robust. In other words: *ALWAYS* click the DesignMode button before we design (since we already do that anyway after we've tested a spreadsheet or control), and then we can get rid of that "Form Design" button.

I mean no offense ... I know that having the design-mode normally-on was designed to make the spreadsheet designer's job easier but... I hope the 11 observations below shares my experience without seeming critical of how the current Design-Mode toggle system unexpectedly complicates things overall for those who use OO Calc to make quick and easy solutions for others (and I've done it for 100's of others ... most who never heard of OO before but are now OO users thanks to my OO spreadsheets I make for them). In short, having Design-Mode normally on does cause problems as noted below, and it is precarious in general (items #2, #3, #4) while providing negligible value (item #8 ). Of interest to moderators, having design-mode normally-off and the "Form Design" button removed should ease the burdens of forum moderators (items #5 & #6), In total you should expect:

1.) More Intuitive and Better Standards-Compliance (Process Consistency):
We'll always know what state of the design-mode before we open a spreadsheet *regardless* which spreadsheet it is or how it was saved.
2.) More Confident Spreadsheet Designers:
If we're going to eventually send it to a non-designer then we won't have to remind ourselves ... "Oh yeah, I'd better make sure I save it with both the Design-Mode button off and Form-Design button on."
3.) Happier Typical-End-Users (non-designers, OO newbies):
There's *no* chance of us getting unhappy customer emails like "The checkboxes [or enter form-control here] don't work."
4.) More spreadsheet robustness:
There's *no* chance of somebody else saving it as Design-Mode "on" before they forward it to a soon-to-be-frustrated newbie (or non-designer) for usage.
5.) More Intuitive Process of How To Enable Controls:
Since design-mode is currently enabled by default, currently new designers are often oblivious about Design-Mode when they start adding check-boxes, buttons, etc... resulting in forum questions like "how do I make my checkboxes work", etc (in fact most don't ask but muddle through it for some time until they figure it out). However requiring them to enable design-mode *before* they create checkboxes will *automagically* familiarize them with the Design-Mode button during the form-control creating process, making it's usage and purpose intuitive and natural.
6.) No more confusion about the "Form Design" button.
I suspect that a "super user" (Ken Johnson) not knowing about that button is *not* an exception to the rule. So, as one can imagine the rest of us (non-super users, and I've written 1000's of Calc macro code lines) have little likelihood of having already understood it.
7.) Simplify a relatively unused & ambiguous process.
See #6 above.
8.) The current 2-button system adds negligible-value and is somewhat ineffective at reducing # of required clicks.
The one advantage of the existing system of Design-Mode normally on (versus normally off, my preference) is to save one click of the Design-Mode button after a spreadsheet is created, but that button may be clicked dozens if not a 100 times anyway for a large spreadsheet with many controls. More notably, in order to save the state of the design-mode a 2nd button (the "Form Design" button) must be clicked, thus negating the one click that was avoided when the spreadsheet was created.
9.) Free up valuable toolbar real-estate.
If design-mode is normally on by default then the "Form Design" button has practically no benefit.
10.) Keep OO-Calc relevant:
Help solution providers (like me) avoid mistakes (for example, sharing a spreadsheet with users where design-mode is left normally on). Similar tools all have this as the foremost goal.
11.) It can't get any easier.
One button (not two) which you simply click before you design. You do it anyway once you've tested the control. I'm hoping we can just make the practice consistent by making Design-Mode normally on, and preferably with the Form-Design button gone forever.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Actually, the option is off by default. The form designer may choose to open the document in form design mode until the form design is ready to use.
2,3,4,5,6,...) The form controls are made for database forms. No user should have any access to the underlying document nor the design view.
Most of the form controls are type specific and not usable with spreadsheet cells.
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davea0511
General User
General User


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Villeroy wrote:
1) Actually, the option is off by default. The form designer may choose to open the document in form design mode until the form design is ready to use.
I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I've installed 3.1, 3.3, and 3.4 on 3 different machines, and in every case the design-mode option is on by default when a new spreadsheet loads.

Maybe you're thinking of the form-design, that is off by default, but that's not my major contention (although I find it's mere existence problematic for reasons I explained in my 11-item list above).

Villeroy wrote:

2,3,4,5,6,...) The form controls are made for database forms. No user should have any access to the underlying document nor the design view.
Most of the form controls are type specific and not usable with spreadsheet cells.

Well here's the thing Villeroy ... they work fantastic in Calc, and I know you know that. That's why they're included. Yes, there are a few things about them that don't work in Calc as one might intend, but that doesn't mean you blow off every Calc-related suggestion, regardless how good they are, when it comes to those controls.

It's fairly obvious to me that the most active and helpful person in the forums (I'm speaking of you ... that's intended as a compliment) seems unmovable when it comes to making design-mode option normally off, regardless how strong the arguments for it. I find that to be very sad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Villeroy
Super User
Super User


Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 10106
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no other relation to the development team of this software than you have. I can only describe things as they are. Whatever you write here does not change a single line of code. Either you contribute or you file a feature request.
No, I don't think that form controls work "fantastic" in any spreadsheet because there are no data types nor records nor relations.
_________________
Rest in peace, oooforum.org
Get help on https://forum.openoffice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OOoForum.org Forum Index -> OpenOffice.org Calc All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group