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Zachariah
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Earth
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 Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:51 am Post subject: Feature Request: OO documents plugin for Microsoft Office |
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I think OO should use a Microsoft tactic agains Microsoft. OO should produce a plugin for all the versions of MSOffice so that OO documents (.sxw .sxc, etc.) could be opened (and maybe saved) right from within MSOffice. That way if someone can't leave MS Office yet, they could at least be able to receive OO documents from OO users. Since the OO document formats are superior IMO, it would help to make them more universally accepted.
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Michael A. Kearsley
OOo Advocate
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 396
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is that while MS Office is the market leader in office suites it is still only one out of many - there are some standalone viewers that have been developed although so far they are very buggy. There is also the online conversion facility for converting to and from the file formats OOo uses (the file format is actually changing for version 2.0) - rather than writing a plugin it might be better to redevelop the plugins that exist for Internet Explorer and Mozilla\Netscape browsers so that they don't require OOo to be installed, people can always copy and paste.
Microsoft makes available an SDK from it's website with information on developing file filters for Word - offhand I can't remember the URL although there is a link to it on the main OOo site (Opening\Saving OOo\Star Office files with MS Office (especially Word) is a somewhat recurrent theme - there are commercial file viewers that support a variety of file types including both MS Office and OOo\Star Office formats. |
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Ed
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Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not entirely sure that making Miscoroft Office capable of opening OOo files would be desirable.
True it would make the file format more widely recognised, but in terms of competing against MSO, I think it would be a bad move. At the moment, file compatability is one major area in which OOo is superior to MSO (granted it's not all that great, but it's still much better than MSO!), so wouldn't improving the compatability of MSO mean improving the competition. In particular, this would mean that MSO would then have BETTER compatability then OOo (an OOo filter developed by the OOo team would almost certainly be better than the currently limited support OOo has for MSO files). Having said that, it would stil be true that OOo uses the standard RTF format correctly while MSO does not.
I'm not saying that making the OOo formats more widely recognised would not be useful to a loit of people, but just that it would be a poor marketing decision. IMHO it would be far better to play up the superiority of OOo's file comaptability over that of MSO on the website. Not that the OOo team seem to make good marketing decisions anyway... |
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DannyB
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Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 4021
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Feature Request: OO documents plugin for Microsoft Offic |
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| Zachariah wrote: | | I think OO should use a Microsoft tactic agains Microsoft. OO should produce a plugin for all the versions of MSOffice so that OO documents (.sxw .sxc, etc.) could be opened (and maybe saved) right from within MSOffice. |
I have said the same thing here before.
Needless to say, I agree completely. 
If there were a free plugin for MSO to read/write OOo, this would only accellerate the acceptance of OOo. It would be a drawback for MSO, not an advantage. Most people don't seem to get this point.
Scenerio: I write document. Send to friend. Today, I must send in MSO format, because other person might only have MSO. But now I would send all documents in OOo format. Oh what you say? You can't read OOo in your MSO software? Just download this plugin.
Same for organizations. Right now, one major impediment to an organization adopting OOo is that everyone else uses MSO. If MSO had an OOo document compatibility, then an OOo organization could tell MSO people to download a free plugin. This is much easier then telling them to get OOo.
It's not a universal solution. Some MSO organizations are not going to install, or allow users to install the OOo plugin. Oh well, you'll have to send them MSO formatted documents. But this is no different than today.
Having an OOo plugin for MSO would only help OOo and hurt MSO.
Can anyone explain exactly how MSO would benefit from having a free OOo plugin? MSO users can read OOo documents? Well, this benefots OOo. Where do those OOo documents come from? Not from MSO users.
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EricMelech
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Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree for the following reason: if people have an MS Office that can read and write OO formats, what reason would there be to use OpenOffice? This, of course, most certainly would be the reasoning of the average user.
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Michael A. Kearsley
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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I disagree with this disagreement as the OOo file format are not the only reason for having OOo as it is freely available and available for more platforms than MS Office, if it was in Microsoft's interest that MS Office products be able to read the OOo formats then they would supply filters for these but they almost never provide filters for the latest versions of competitors software because that encourages use of that file format - no doubt at some stage Microsoft will start producing file filters for OOo 1.0 formats at the point when those are no longer current and the versions of OOo for which those are standard are considered rather dated and people who have been using those formats are looking to get new software with updated features.
However if such file filters were developed for MS Office it would make sense to develop ones for the new formats that are coming in with OOo 2.0 rather than the older ones that OOo 1.x uses otherwise there is the risk that they might just endup helping Microsoft hold on to it's existing customers and get new customers.
File filters for other smaller applications would be quite a good alternative to having a OOo Lite edition (Which there has also been some expressed interest in) - most people with Windows 95 and above have Wordpad installed for example the advantage of which for Microsoft is that it's default format is the Word 6 format, if an addin supported the sxw and oxt formats then a lot more people would be able to open and edit the files than would if there was only one for MS Word.
| EricMelech wrote: | | I disagree for the following reason: if people have an MS Office that can read and write OO formats, what reason would there be to use OpenOffice? This, of course, most certainly would be the reasoning of the average user. |
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DannyB
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Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 4021
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| EricMelech wrote: | | I disagree for the following reason: if people have an MS Office that can read and write OO formats, what reason would there be to use OpenOffice? This, of course, most certainly would be the reasoning of the average user. |
Two arguments:
Argument 0
This is absoloutely NOT the reasoning of any sensible average user.
Do you believe that MSO not having OOo filters is a motive for the MSO users to switch to OOo? Users are abandoning MSO because it can't read/write OOo formats? And if MSO had OOo filters this mass migration to OOo would stop. Get serious. I don't think so. If that were true, then MS would quickly add the OOo filters in order to stop the mass exodus.
I believe that an OOo filter or lack thereof is irrelevant to whether an MSO user decides to switch to OOo. There are many factors that influence an MSO user to stay or switch. Filters are way, way down the list of factors.
More importantly....
Argument 1
Having such filters is an improvement to MSO. In fact, this improvement to MSO seems to be what you object to. You blindly accept that anything we do that might improve MSO is a bad thing.
Drop all of the passion for a moment. Use only reason. No passion.
The way that we would improve MSO is in the area of interoperability. Making MSO more interoperable works directly against Microsoft's interests. Having these filters might be a technical improvement to MSO. But consider that these filters are a stragetic disadvantage to MSO.
In fact, making any monopoly product interoperable always undermines the monopoly product. It helps place all products on an equal footing. A commodity. "common" Like all others. Not unique.
MSO is currently one of the two major cash cows of Microsoft. The reason is because of the outrageously high prices they can charge. (What economists call "monopoly rents".) In a competitive market, nobody can charge monopoly rents, because customers will flock to the competition. Having these filters actually helps commoditize MSO.
It makes OOo documents almost as "standard" as MSO documents.
This leads directly to....
Argument 2
Lack of OOo filters for MSO is one more obstacle to adopting OOo. Let's face fact. MSO is the dominant office software. An organization wanting to use OOo must be able to interoperate with the dominant MSO. This interoperability comes on two levels....
1. OOo being able to read/write MSO documents (done)
2. MSO being able to read/write OOo documents (not done yet)
MSO having OOo filters would complete a major part of the interoperability problem, thus helping OOo.
This argument is premised on the fact that any interoperability helps OOo and hurts MSO. Part of what props up MSO is the "lock in". Interoperability undermines lock in. These filters complete a major missing part of the interoperability.
Scenerio 0
Imagine. An OOo user sends a document to an MSO user.
Today, the MSO user complains, and rightly so, why don't you send the document in a "standard" format. (Standard, in their mind, meaning "what everyone uses".)
So the MSO user tells the OOo user: "Send the doc in a standard format."
Maybe the OOo user can say "switch to OOo". The MSO user will just laugh.
Maybe the OOo user could say "download some free OOo viewer". This might be more plausible, but still its a stretch.
Suppose the OOo user could say "download these filters for MSO". Since this is the smallest download, smaller even than a viewer, and allows the MSO user to use their familiar software, this is the most likely thing that the OOo user could urge the MSO user to accept.
Scenerio 1
I want to post some important computer hacking paper on the web. (Or medical research paper, or scientific paper, or whatever.) If I post it in OOo format, then very few people can actually read it.
Three solutions (same as Scenerio 0):
1. Install OOo
2. Use some kind of OOo viewer
3. Install OOo filters for MSO
Solution 3 is probably most attractive to MSO users.
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mcuddy
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1
Location: Mooving All Over the USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject: compatibility is always good |
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I use open office exclusively at home. Unfortunately many buisnesses use microsoft word and not open office. When I know I'll be needing to access the files out of the house, I try to save them in .doc or .pdf, but this is unhandy as I like .sxw I could recomend this software more often if there was an easy way to view the files in word or IE (yuck!!)
In my mind the most compatable program (It can read and others can read it) wins. |
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Zachariah
General User
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Press Release - OpenOffice.org 2.0: | Quote: | | The OpenDocument format can be used by any office application, ensuring that documents can be viewed, edited and printed for generations to come. |
so as long as someone makes a plugin/filter for the older ms office (and other office suites) then I will really be able to (in the near future) just use the open document format for everything, and not have to worry who I send it to -- that sounds awesome!
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Kaaredyret
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Zachariah
General User
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
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no, I didn't see that one ... thank you for pointing it out
looks like a very interesting and hopeful discussion 
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LarsB
OOo Advocate
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 465
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: AODL |
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Hi,
i currently develop AODL An OpenDocument Library. It isn't
a plug in for MS Office, but it will make it much more easier
for devloper to generate documents in the OpenDocument
format from their dot net applications.
Because it use the mapper and facade pattern it should be
later possible generate Office Xml instead of OenDocument xml.
But before i implement this feature i will implement most
of the OpenDocument features.
You will find more information on the homepage:
http://aodl.sourceforge.net/index.html
Cheers
Lars B
PS: AODL is published under the LGPL
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