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dont understand page numbering
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bearcat
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: dont understand page numbering Reply with quote

I'm looking for something dumbed down to the point where a retarded infant could understand and follow the instructions. I've got a document I started back in 2009 (!) that I never finished because the agony of trying to insert page numbers made me scream with frustration and give up.

This: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1221

is too difficult for me to follow or understand. A video tutorial MIGHT help, but instead of ramming "fields" and "page styles" down our throats, why not a simple button?

Button named "page numbering". Click it, then click on the page where you want page numbering to begin. That's it. Would that have been so hard, really?

Yeah, I know. Snide creeps will now jump on, call me a "whiner" and say "go program your own if you don't like it"

Look, if the Emperor's New Clothes are nonexistent, all the ass kissing in the world won't make them beautiful.


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ftack
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People would complain about not being able to insert page numbers like they want if your suggestion was to be followed.

What is difficult about a page number being a field rather than text you type?

Insert it where you want, and you are set.

Insert - Field - Pagenumber

Once you know a page number is a field, this is not difficult to find. You may create a button yourself to insert it with one click. I am glad it is not there by default, because the action is not that frequent. You need this only once or a few times for every document.

Obviously, you have to insert the page number where it makes sense. You usually want it on each page, so you will want to insert it in the header or the footer, the area of the page where repeated text is inserted.

I do not get the difficulty, other than that you must learn once that a page number is a field, similar to other variable content you can insert.

Software should be easy to use, but it should not become dumb.
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bearcat
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ftack wrote:
People would complain about not being able to insert page numbers like they want if your suggestion was to be followed.

What is difficult about a page number being a field rather than text you type?

Insert it where you want, and you are set.

Insert - Field - Pagenumber

Once you know a page number is a field, this is not difficult to find. You may create a button yourself to insert it with one click. I am glad it is not there by default, because the action is not that frequent. You need this only once or a few times for every document.

Obviously, you have to insert the page number where it makes sense. You usually want it on each page, so you will want to insert it in the header or the footer, the area of the page where repeated text is inserted.

I do not get the difficulty, other than that you must learn once that a page number is a field, similar to other variable content you can insert.

Software should be easy to use, but it should not become dumb.



The difficulty is this. The requirements to accomplish the exact thing I'm working on are insanely complex. I am creating a booklet with an introduction, table of contents and index, all without page numbers. The rest of the content must be numbered, starting with page one on the first page. I want a button that just lets me insert page numbers starting there, and stopping where I designate. That's not possible without the insanely difficult to undertand and use "Page Styles". There is NO BENEFIT to it being this complicated.
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kittylost
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree 100%, I do not get this page styles thing at all. Worse - the page styles is not working or solving the issue. Why not a button that ask if you do or don't want a page number or footer on this page? I DON'T GET PAGE STYLES and from the hundreds of questions about it neither does most other people.
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therabi
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOo's power comes from styles. If your not willing to learn and use the power then find a software package that thinks for you. I agree with ftackt, I do not see where it is so hard.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: dont understand page numbering Reply with quote

[quote="bearcat"]I'm looking for something dumbed down to the point where a retarded infant could understand and follow the instructions. I've got a document I started back in 2009 (!) that I never finished because the agony of trying to insert page numbers made me scream with frustration and give up./quote]

You need either a header or a footer for your page number.

You need a new page style inserted when you want the page numbers.

So.

Open Stylist. (F11)
Click on fourth icon from left,
Right click on default and choose new.
Give new style a name --- Mypagestyle
Select Mypagestyle as next style.
Turn on header and /or footer under the header and footer tabs

Save.

At end of front material do
Insert > Manual Break > Page Break and select the Mypagestyle. (Note this must be done using the menu-do not use a keyboard command)
Set the page number to whatever number you want.

Click okay

Click in Header or Footer
Insert > Fields > Page Number.

Done.

Headers and footers are a function of the page style you are using. If you want to change them then you need a different Page Style.
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ftack
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no need to "use" page styles if you just want to insert a page number. To insert a page number, you first insert a header or footer, then insert your page number into that, where and how you want. That's it.

Page styles are needed if you want page numbers to be different on different pages (e.g. left on the left page, right on the right page, no page number, ...).

Allegedly, it is somewhat tricky for new users to get into page styles. LibreOffice has introduced a dialog that allows to setup a first page without page number without having to configure page styles manually. It is under the "Format - Title page" command.
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SpottedAtrocious
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've just spent an hour finally figuring out how to start my document on page 25 rather than page 1.

The given (http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Page_Numbers#To_Start_With_a_Defined_Page_Number) advice to Click into the first paragraph of your document.
Choose Format - Paragraph - Text flow.
In the Breaks area, enable Insert. Enable With Page Style just to be able to set the new Page number. Click OK.

simply inserted a new page at the start of the document. This blank page was 25, and I couldn't get the first paragraph of text back up onto it.

But then I remembered, from the last time we were trying to figure this out, to go Insert Field > Other, then select page and "offset" to enter a new page number. It worked! Brilliant. The furthest thing from intuitive I've encountered in 30 years of using computers, but hey, I got there!

Until 6 pages later when, for no apparent reason, the page numbers disapper and inserting a new field accomplishes exactly nothing.

Why? WHY HAVE MY PAGE NUMBERS DISAPPEARED?

The document was just written in a straight-ahead style, I've been through and checked the footers are on for all pages, I've checked there's no new page style been inadvertently inserted (although given how freaking hard it is to track down all the different ways to do what should be a simple drop-down...)

I've written a whole novel. I need this to be able to work 18 more times so all the chapters can start on the correct page. Formatting my doctorate in the enemy's proprietary software was a piece of cake, toc, appendices, chapters and all. But this - this is ridiculous.
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floris_v
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Tutorial] Page numbering. You shouldn't use the Offset value because if you enter a positive value there, the last pages of your document won't be numbered.

IMO the page styles concept, while very powerful and easy to use once you got the hang of it, is very hard to master. So is the idea of manual page breaks. I can't imagine that the developers who thought that up, ever did any serious work with a word processor.
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SpottedAtrocious
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't understand, Floris.

I've yet to see an explanation of the page styles that shows me how to change my page number without inserting a page. That is, in fact, the command, right? Insert >Page>With style? Or am I missing something???

What's the relevance of your comment on manual page breaks?

And what do you mean, 'the last pages of my document won't be numbered'? Why would a command work for eight pages and then drop out?
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floris_v
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you read that tutorial? It answers all of your questions.
In my dictionary a manual page break is a hard page break, which can be easily inserted by pressing Ctrl+Enter. But that's not the "manual page break" that the developers of OOo, or the people who wrote the documentation, had in mind.
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SpottedAtrocious
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I did read that tutorial.

Today I have found the 'issues' link. I will try once again to understand the explanations. I'm still confused as I do not wish, nor have I tried, to use different page styles or 'Next page style' for different parts of the document.

Nor is there any explanation about why the page number disappears after eight pages of a thirty-page document.

If I can't sort it today I'll export the whole thing to MS and do it all there. Life is too short to struggle this hard with something that can and should be so straightforward.
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floris_v
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that Writer works like this: if your document has 40 pages and you start numbering with an offset of 8, pages are numbered 9 to 48, but because there are only 40 real pages, Writer will stop the numbering at 40. I don't know what purpose the offset has, but apparently it's no use. You should instead use the Page number entry on the text flow tab of the Format paragraph dialog box. You have to stick to the instructions in that tutorial. Don't deviate from it. Don't question the instructions, they were written by somebody who knows his job.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpottedAtrocious wrote:
Yes, I did read that tutorial.

Today I have found the 'issues' link. I will try once again to understand the explanations. I'm still confused as I do not wish, nor have I tried, to use different page styles or 'Next page style' for different parts of the document.


Then you will not get the numbering you want. It's that simple in OOo.

Quote:
Nor is there any explanation about why the page number disappears after eight pages of a thirty-page document.


You probably have a new page style there. Keep the Stylist open at Page Styles and click on the one of the pages with a page number and see what Style is highlighted. Repeat in a page with no page number. It is almost certain you will find that they are different.
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SpottedAtrocious
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that
a) I have not used page styles in this document, yet (according to last post here) a new one appears to be popping up mid-document,
b) in the next document where I've tried to follow these instructions - again this being my first attempt to use page styles - the page numbering is skipping even pages (leaving the footer text, just dropping the page number),
c) on my third read-through I still cannot understand the tutorial's instruction on how to avoid inserting an extra page at the start of each document, and
d) the two posts previous to this one have wildly differing accounts as to why the page numbering might drop out eight pages in to a 40 page document,

I am going to give up. You guys might all think this is simple, and I guess it is if you are properly trained (just like I think Foucaultian genealogy is a brilliantly simple analytical tool). Your man Hagar may well know his job but clearly that job isn't teaching. Thank you all for your attempts to clarify this mud, but as I've said - life is too short.
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