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Bring back the old installer!!!
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Should Sun continue to distribute the 2.0 series of OpenOffice.org as RPMs or switch back to the old installer?
Keep the RPMs
28%
 28%  [ 24 ]
Switch back to the old installer
71%
 71%  [ 61 ]
Total Votes : 85

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9point9
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always build from source.

One of the problems with the Debian system of DEB's is that because they have set up repositories for official packages to be downloaded from, there is little impotus for a software project to make DEB packages as if the Debian repositories live up to expectations, there should be a Debian build on the repository very shortly.
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Kaaredyret
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got Sun StarOffice 8.0 for Linux, and the installer was a failure. It failed on my debian based Linux and by viewing the log file I could see that I was supposed to MANUALLY FIND the *.rpm files, convert them from the terminal prompt, and install them using DPKG etc.

That I did, pretty used to it now, and I followed the instructions carefully.

It was a spectacular failure.

Installer my *** ... it did nothing for me, and I never got StarOffice running. Weird, since I install OOo by using the exact same procedure.

Why not use AutoPackages? At least just making OOo available as an AutoPackage would be great.
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Ed
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaaredyret wrote:

Why not use AutoPackages? At least just making OOo available as an AutoPackage would be great.


Would Autopackage really be an improvement?

It would still leave OOo as a large collection of separate packeges which all have to be installed individually, and would still give users no choices ather than which of the many packages to install. This is really no better than RPMs/DEBs.

What is needed is an interactive installer, which gives users a single program to execute, which then asks them which components to install, where to install it, what file associations to set up, and any other relevant options.

The current syatem of breaking OOo apart into a collection of predefined packages is both a pain to use, and lacking in user choice. This principal is what needs to be changed, not what type these many packages are.
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Kaaredyret
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, you are right about the autopackage problem. Yes, we need a proper installer, but actually AutoPackages should be expanded to support installing of just certain components.
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mario1969
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: no more openoffice Reply with quote

openoffice has just lost me. or at least until they provide an alternative to RPM. in the meantime i've uninstalled 1.1.5. koffice and/or abiword+gnumeric seem to be the only viable office options in linux, if linux is to continue to be about freedom, rather than restriction, of choice.
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9point9
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if it's easy enough to build an Autopackage why doesn't someone knock one up, get a small group of users to test it (I will) and then submit it to Sun?

I am not sold on Autopakaging as I have not yet used one.
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ladymecha
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9point9 wrote:
You can always build from source.

One of the problems with the Debian system of DEB's is that because they have set up repositories for official packages to be downloaded from, there is little impotus for a software project to make DEB packages as if the Debian repositories live up to expectations, there should be a Debian build on the repository very shortly.


well a newbie wont know how to build from source

that is what this arguement is about, that the current system of installation is way too frustrating.... even on RPM distros I bet there are people wanting to complain.

this isnt just about debian vs. open office, but linux vs. open office as seriously... it is not the linux way to restict packages.
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Kaaredyret
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guarantee you all that Microsoft loves this RPMS and DEB problem with OpenOffice and other Linux programs. And attitudes like RTFM.

OpenOffice for Windows is something else, phew.
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ladymecha
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh huh, dont you think that is suspicious?
that OO is willing to pull out any stops for its windows release, but for its linux release we get crap...

same with OSX

this whole situation is crap folks, plain and simple...
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spent1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:08 pm    Post subject: AGREED - incredibly poor. Reply with quote

I think sun can kiss it good bye.
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cwchia
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

though I grew used to the rpms, but am still missing the old installer, at least it mekes the installation process more uniform between linux and Windows and that would greatly help new windows converts.
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9point9
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have installed an Autopackage, OK so it was Abiword but I'm still loyal to OOo. My experiences are mixed. It is still a young project and I know that some things will be fixed at some point. Issues with autopackage:

1. It doesn't interface with any existing package management system. I would rather not have 2 package databases unconnected as this could get confusing.

2. It does take a while to run. 15 minutes to install from a 3.4Mb file is a bit of a joke.

3. If it needs dependencies it downloads them which therefore makes things hard if you don't have an Internet connection.

4. You have to give it the root password. OK, so you have to log in as root to install RPM's but that is giving the password to the system, not to a script that you've downloaded and not checked. This is a serious security issue as it could go ahead and download malicious packages. If an OOo mirror got root comprimised then you could have the worlds first successful Linux virus. This wouldn't necessarilly hgappen but could.
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Wed
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running Slackware Linux on x86

Installing OOo2.0 was the ugliest procedure I have ever gone through (trying my hand at LFS included).

The office suite most of us like so dearly ought to be installable with no fuss, just like it used to be, no matter what the distro may be. It went from near perfection to utter disgrace.

What has Sun got to do with anything?
As far as I know, they released a bit of code from StarOffice, and they support OOo, thanks a lot Sun!. So, why bother about Sun? Are there rights issues involved?

RPM is presumptious.
I had to unpack the tar.gz only to find a bunch of RPM's. I was certain I had downloaded the wrong package and did it all over again (there was no other to chose from though). Which had to be converted to TGZ's.

And manually install them into /opt without control! I want it in /usr! I nearly exhausted my /-partition in which my /opt reside.

I hope nothing broke when I quite simply moved it from /opt to /usr. It did start afterwards ...

And I haven't yet worked out how to bind it to KDE, What about a network install? There is precious little information in the install documentation.

I sincerely do appreciate the price tag on OOo. But this is not a good way to install it, even though it may be functioning well once installed.

My vote was cast in favour of the old installer
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ladymecha
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh huh, you see Open office?

that is what happens when you focus on RPM only...
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Magic Machine
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use my package manager 'installer' (like KPackage) and never the command line. You can also open RPMs from Kpackage.
Debian is very slow to update and it's always safest to use files within the distros' release cycles. As far as OoO releasing RPMs even that is risky as far as stability because it hasn't been fully tested in your environment etc as well. So in the end I think it's best to check your distros repository for updates and luckily I use an RPM based distro which is usually fast about releases.

Some programs just give you the files I can just keep them all in one directory and run from there without using a registry as well. So if not an installer, just a simple unpack of the files might work for people.
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