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Nested paragraph styles

 
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David Given
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Nested paragraph styles Reply with quote

I wish to use OO to create some structured text. I want the end result to look like this:

Code:
1. Section header
   Some plain text
   1.1. Subsection header
        Some more plain text


That is, the level of indentation of the plain text --- which should all be the same paragraph style --- depends on the section header. (I can't use different paragraph styles for different levels of text because I'm going to have quite a lot of different paragraph styles representing different things, and don't want to duplicate them lots of times.)

I can't figure out a way of doing this --- is there one?
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Nested paragraph styles Reply with quote

David Given wrote:
I wish to use OO to create some structured text. I want the end result to look like this:

Code:
1. Section header
   Some plain text
   1.1. Subsection header
        Some more plain text


That is, the level of indentation of the plain text --- which should all be the same paragraph style --- depends on the section header. (I can't use different paragraph styles for different levels of text because I'm going to have quite a lot of different paragraph styles representing different things, and don't want to duplicate them lots of times.)

I can't figure out a way of doing this --- is there one?


I assume that you have the numbered headers all set up. Can you not simply define a paragraph style for each heading or subheading plain text level and set up the next style to follow the Subsection heading?

That way, the text after 1.1 and 2.1 would always be the same and so on. You still would need paragraph styles for each heading level. Am I missing something here?
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jrkrideau
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Currently using Windows 7 & OOo 3.4.0 and Ubuntu 12.04 & LibreOffice 3.5.2.2
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David Given
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I've got a bunch of different paragraph styles that I'm going to be using as part of the text, which I want to use as part of a section or subsection or subsubsection, etc. If the indentation level is specified as part of the text style then I'm going to have to duplicate all these paragraph styles simply so that each one has its own indentation level. This strikes me as ugly, inelegant and difficult to maintain. I should only have to specify the indentation level once.

I suppose what I really want is to be able to apply multiple paragraph styles at the same time...
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Given wrote:
Because I've got a bunch of different paragraph styles that I'm going to be using as part of the text, which I want to use as part of a section or subsection or subsubsection, etc. If the indentation level is specified as part of the text style then I'm going to have to duplicate all these paragraph styles simply so that each one has its own indentation level. This strikes me as ugly, inelegant and difficult to maintain. I should only have to specify the indentation level once.

I suppose what I really want is to be able to apply multiple paragraph styles at the same time...


I don't follow this. It may be because of my earlier teminology however.

Do you want to completely change the format of the text that follows Heading 1.1 so that it is different from the format that follows 2.1? That is, the text in the paragraph:
After H1.1 is inArial Iitalic
After 2.1 is in TimesUnderlined bold
Afger 3.1 is Courrier Bold
and so on?

If so I don't see any way that you can get away without multiple paragraph fomats and a lot of annoying work since the inheritence characteristics of the headings will affect you.

If you want all 1.1, 2.1 & 3.1 paragraphs to be intented 1.5 cm and in Bold and all 1.1.1 , 2.1.1 and 3.1.1 paragraphs to be indented 2.0 cm and underlined then that only requires defining three paragraphs and setting up the inheritances from the headings Note what I am calling inheritance is labelled "Next Style " on the Paragraph Organizer tab.
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jrkrideau
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David Given
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second of what you mention is what I want, but I'm afraid I still don't seem to be describing it in a way that you're following.

What I want is for the text after 1.1 to be indented 1.5cm, and the text after 1.1.1 to be indented 2.0cm, but I cannot use different paragraph styles, because I've got lots of different styles I need to use for the text, and I'd have to duplicate them all for each indentation level. If I have styles called Text, Comment, Code, Quotation, Sidebar, and Recap, then if they each have an indentation of 1.5cm set then in order to be able to use them with an indentation of 2.0cm I'm going to have to define new styles called Text 1, Comment 1, Code 1, Quotation 1, Sidebar 1 and Recap 1 that are identical to the previous styles apart from the indentation level; and god help me if I decide later that actually I want them indent 2.5cm instead of 2.0cm. I'm going to have to change them all manually, rather than changing one thing.

Using 'next style' (which is not inheritance, BTW; 'linked to' is more like traditional inheritance) doesn't help because it's just a shortcut to save you from having to change the style manually on the next paragraph.

It sounds like OO simply can't do what I want here.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Given wrote:
The second of what you mention is what I want, but I'm afraid I still don't seem to be describing it in a way that you're following.

What I want is for the text after 1.1 to be indented 1.5cm, and the text after 1.1.1 to be indented 2.0cm, but I cannot use different paragraph styles, because I've got lots of different styles I need to use for the text, and I'd have to duplicate them all for each indentation level. If I have styles called Text, Comment, Code, Quotation, Sidebar, and Recap, then if they each have an indentation of 1.5cm set then in order to be able to use them with an indentation of 2.0cm I'm going to have to define new styles called Text 1, Comment 1, Code 1, Quotation 1, Sidebar 1 and Recap 1 that are identical to the previous styles apart from the indentation level; and god help me if I decide later that actually I want them indent 2.5cm instead of 2.0cm. I'm going to have to change them all manually, rather than changing one thing.

Using 'next style' (which is not inheritance, BTW; 'linked to' is more like traditional inheritance) doesn't help because it's just a shortcut to save you from having to change the style manually on the next paragraph.

It sounds like OO simply can't do what I want here.


I think I understand you now. Your example makes it much clearer.

I'm still having a problem visualising how one would set it up but I think you're right that OOo would not do it.

There may be some way to do this but it would take someone with a lot more expertise than me to do it. Concieveably one could write a macro to deal with the problem but I expect that it would be easier to find another text processor that is set up for this
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Dale
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrkrideau wrote:
There may be some way to do this but it would take someone with a lot more expertise than me to do it.

I've got virtually no experience with Styles. I know there's problems with what I'm about to state, and I can almost (but can't quite) see what they are. So, if anyone would care to respond, I'll learn a bit more about Writer and Styles:

What happens if you use the existing para styles, and then manually (via the stylist) apply a Character style to them?
I can see that there will be issues with style and document maintenance, but can't get my head around what they would be. Is this any different to on-the-fly formatting?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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David Given
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the character style overrides the paragraph style. You can then change either style later, and it'll all work the way you expect.

Is it possible to set a style to make the font *bigger*, by a particular amount, without actually having to specify an absolute size in points?
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Given wrote:
I believe the character style overrides the paragraph style. You can then change either style later, and it'll all work the way you expect.

Is it possible to set a style to make the font *bigger*, by a particular amount, without actually having to specify an absolute size in points?


Apparently yes, though I'm not sure if it works in exactly your example
Have a look at Working with Styles in Writer (p. 13)
http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/draft_pub/
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jrkrideau
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xanton
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Given:

If I understand right what you want, then I think you cannot avoid having different styles (eg subsection or subsubsection) for each indentation level (eg "xsubsection" and "xsubsubsection" for indentation level 1, "xxsubsection" and "xxsubsubsection" for indentation level 2 etc). This is the bad news.

The good news is you can create a basis style for each indentation level, on which you could base the substyles in this indentation level (eg a basic style "x" for indentation level 1, on which you can base the styles "xsubsection" and "xsubsubsection", another basic style "xx" for indentation level 2 on which you can base the styles "xxsubsection" and "xxsubsubsection" and so on). Thus when you change the basis style (eg style "x") then all styles based on this (eg "xsubsection" and "xsubsubsection") change respectively.

The way to base a sub style on a basis style is by changing the "linked with" property under the organiser tab for each substyle you create (eg for style "xsubsection" linked with "x", for style "xxsubsection" linked with "xx" etc).

I hope this helps
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