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tombcd
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Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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I'm wondering whether we can expect OO compatibility with the new upcoming Microsoft Office 12 file formats like .docx (Word), .xlsx (Excel) and the other?
Of course I know Office 12 isnt't released yet but it's just entered beta testing phase and this is a good time in my opinion to consider it. Compatibility with MS Office has always been of utmost importance for the developers and the users so I think it is a must. Microsoft will provide (currently in beta testing) a tool to enable older Office suites reading/writing the new formats so we can expect it to become a standard shortly after O12 is released. |
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AndrewZ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| tombcd wrote: | | I'm wondering whether we can expect OO compatibility with the new upcoming Microsoft Office 12 file formats like .docx (Word), .xlsx (Excel) and the other? |
OpenOffice.org does already support the MS Office 2003 XML formats, so I would say, Yes. However, I didn't notice any specific work done yet, so if you want, you can suggest the feature at the Issue Tracker: http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html
| Quote: | | Microsoft will provide (currently in beta testing) a tool to enable older Office suites reading/writing the new formats |
Probably not all the way back to, say, Office 97, which still has many users.  |
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tombcd
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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This O12 file format is probably similar to O 2003 XML so adopting it will be easy I think.
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Probably not all the way back to, say, Office 97, which still has many users. |
Right, currently only Office 2003 is supported |
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AndrewZ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| tombcd wrote: |
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Probably not all the way back to, say, Office 97, which still has many users. |
Right, currently only Office 2003 is supported |
Well, Microsoft has said that old software versions are its biggest competitor, but on the other hand, Office 12 does two things: a very different user interface will scare some users, and a new document format will break some compatability with older versions. |
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bobharvey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| tombcd wrote: | | I'm wondering whether we can expect OO compatibility with the new upcoming Microsoft Office 12 file formats like .docx (Word), .xlsx (Excel) and the other? |
I have read that M$'s licence for the xml formats explicity prohibits opening the files in GPL'd software. So it might be rather difficult. http://opendocumentfellowship.org/Resources/FAQ
More recent comments suggest that it will be permissible to open and read such files, but writing them might be in contravention of M$ licences!
Personally, I think that M$ might hit a user backlash if it tried to impose conditions like these. |
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tombcd
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| bobharvey wrote: | | I have read that M$'s licence for the xml formats explicity prohibits opening the files in GPL'd software. So it might be rather difficult. |
Why can we open/edit the current .doc, .xls files in OOo then? Are they licensed differently? |
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9point9
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| tombcd wrote: | | Why can we open/edit the current .doc, .xls files in OOo then? Are they licensed differently? |
Reverse engineering. I see it as very hard for them to enforce the license on their new formats. It may well be bordering on illegal in many countries.
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AndrewZ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Future compatibility with .docx, .xlsx etc? |
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| bobharvey wrote: | | tombcd wrote: | | I'm wondering whether we can expect OO compatibility with the new upcoming Microsoft Office 12 file formats like .docx (Word), .xlsx (Excel) and the other? |
I have read that M$'s licence for the xml formats explicity prohibits opening the files in GPL'd software. So it might be rather difficult. http://opendocumentfellowship.org/Resources/FAQ |
But OpenOffice.org isn't licensed under the GPL: OOo uses the LGPL, so OOo should be OK. Still, KWord and AbiWord use the GPL, so they may have problems.
| Quote: | | Why can we open/edit the current .doc, .xls files in OOo then? Are they licensed differently? |
Because Microsoft has not yet made any assertations or threats, but you can imagine what might happen if you consider what Microsoft did with the FAT. They developed a file system called FAT (used in DOS and sometimes Windows), and they did not claim anyone needed a license or to pay royalties. Then, they waited years until many companies implemented the FAT (e.g. in removeable storage such as for digital cameras and USB drives). At that point, Microsoft announced a license was required. People called this surpise move a "submarine patent."
http://perens.com/Articles/PatentFarming.html
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/05/microsoft_patent/
So, software patents are a legal mindfield.
| Quote: | | Reverse engineering. I see it as very hard for them to enforce the license on their new formats. It may well be bordering on illegal in many countries. |
Legally, I don't see what difference is between reverse engineering the XML formats and the binary formats. |
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marknelson
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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That is probably pretty easy ahz think about this Reverse Engineer and if Microsoft threatens you you can prove in court that you never touched their stuff, Binary formats you don't know if you can do that   Of course I am just guessing here. |
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AndrewZ
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tombcd
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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OK - could someone sum it all up in one sentence?  What does it mean in practice? |
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AndrewZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| tombcd wrote: |
OK - could someone sum it all up in one sentence? What does it mean in practice? |
Just one? Ideally, Microsoft's formats should finally be standardized and documented, and all programs (including GPL programs such as KWord and AbiWord) should be able to implement import and export filters for the formats. Also, the competition should improve the quality of both OpenDocument and Microsoft's format. On the other hand, things may not work out so nicely. |
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9point9
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I always would follow ISO above ECMA. This is just because OASIS have already gone to ISO so MS must settle for ECMA. OASIS should submit to ECMA and everyone should tell ECMA that OpenDocument is the real standard to go with.
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bobharvey
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| 9point9 wrote: | | I always would follow ISO above ECMA. This is just because OASIS have already gone to ISO so MS must settle for ECMA. OASIS should submit to ECMA and everyone should tell ECMA that OpenDocument is the real standard to go with. |
M$ hae done this before. The bytecode and other parts of .net are published as a standard by ECMA. I had dealings with ECMA standards in the late 1970s, and back then they appeared just to stick a cover on whatever other people gave them and called it a "standard". Quite a useful idea, but not a peer-reviewed, committee-argued, sytnax-checked guaranteed usable standard. |
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AndrewZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Microsoft announced they plan to pursue ISO after ECMA. |
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