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dreadlordnaf
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: Why no OpenOffice reader? |
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Many times I want to publish or create some document for someone in .odt format but i know they will not be able to read it unless they download the whole OpenOffice suite and many people dont want to do this.
Why not take a page from Adobe who made their acrobat reader one of the most popular by offering a free, easily downloadable basic reader to everyone? I'd like to see a skimmed down version of just OpenOffice Writer thats small and has basic functionality, like Wordpad is to MS Word.
I could then start sending more people documents and using openoffice more often by also sending them the link to download the small reader file. I'd think this would allow open office to really take off because people will be able to read the .odt documents easily without having to download the whole version yet at the same time they will get exposure and possible interest in the main OpenOffice program. |
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9point9
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3904
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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OpenDocument is not an OOo controlled format. Anyone could make a reader for it, indeed people already have. Try googling for Visioo Writer.
The format is also used by Abiword and KOffice.
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denmarks
OOo Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Why not just let OOo make a PDF version of the document? It is built into version 2.
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Jallan
OOo Advocate
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Why no OpenOffice reader? |
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| dreadlordnaf wrote: | Many times I want to publish or create some document for someone in .odt format but i know they will not be able to read it unless they download the whole OpenOffice suite and many people dont want to do this.
Why not take a page from Adobe who made their acrobat reader one of the most popular by offering a free, easily downloadable basic reader to everyone? I'd like to see a skimmed down version of just OpenOffice Writer thats small and has basic functionality, like Wordpad is to MS Word.
I could then start sending more people documents and using openoffice more often by also sending them the link to download the small reader file. I'd think this would allow open office to really take off because people will be able to read the .odt documents easily without having to download the whole version yet at the same time they will get exposure and possible interest in the main OpenOffice program. |
The normal way to send read-only, electronic documents today read-only is by PDF, regardless how they were created. Almost everyone can read PDF's immediately, and know that if they have to forward them to others, they will also be able to read them.
No-one wants to have to download software just to read something that could have been just as well sent as a PDF. Even the OpenOffice site has most of its documentation also available in PDF format. |
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dreadlordnaf
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Oh maybe i wasnt clear. I dont want to make read only documents. What i was saying is that right now im mainly using my openoffice to save and send documents to people in .doc format because most of them dont have programs that can read .odt documents. This doesnt really help OpenOffice spread or encourage the use of the .odt format though.
It would be nice if there was a way they could download some minimal version of Writer to read these without having to download the entire openoffice program. This would allow me to actually use the .odt format more often since ill know they can quickly download a program to read such a file.
9point9's response is what i was searching for. Im just surprised though with how passionate the openoffice people are about spreading this program that there isnt some basic simple version like this on the site here. It seems like it would facilate the spreading and use of the .odt format greatly. Microsoft and the .doc format will continue to rule because wordpad is standard on all windows machine and you never worry if someone can read a .doc document or not. Thats not the case now with .odt though. |
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Gabor
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 611
Location: Hungary (E-Europe)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: OpenDocument Converter |
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| dreadlordnaf wrote: |
... wordpad is standard on all windows machine and you never worry if someone can read a .doc document or not. Thats not the case now with .odt though. |
You do have to worry since Wordpad is unable to properly open a well-constructed document with pictures and the like.
Visioo is a fine (but only emergency) tool to get back pure text nothing more.
However, there is Free OpenDocument Converter which bridges the gap really well.
http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=28985 |
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dreadlordnaf
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| thanks ill check it out. |
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Jallan
OOo Advocate
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dreadlordnaf wrote: | | 9point9's response is what i was searching for. Im just surprised though with how passionate the openoffice people are about spreading this program that there isnt some basic simple version like this on the site here. It seems like it would facilate the spreading and use of the .odt format greatly. Microsoft and the .doc format will continue to rule because wordpad is standard on all windows machine and you never worry if someone can read a .doc document or not. Thats not the case now with .odt though. |
Wordpad does an abominable job on importing anything but the simplest Word documents. Its presence on Windows system has nothing to do with the popularity of the .doc format. It is unusable as a general .doc reader.
Instead people using Windows who do not have MS Word installed might use the free MS Word Viewer available from MIcrsoft. But not Wordpad.
The .doc format became popular because for a long time MS Office provided a great price bargain compared to other products for the power it delivered. and so it captured the majority of the market. Other Word Processors naturally developed filters allowing them to import and export documents in .doc format. Previously Word Perfect format had been the most common interchange format. Before that, it was Word Star format.
Basically, in business, people want to get documents they can open easily, quickly, without fuss, by clicking on an attachment in an email or clickng on an icon. And they want to be able to forward such documents to others without receiving complaints that they can't be read. They don't want to have to download some other software, even free software, to simply read or hard-print a document that could just as well have been sent in standard PDF format or .doc format. And they don't want then to have to go through the hassle of having having to send such documents to others who will have to do the same thing.
Perhaps the people who get a particular .doc file actually use WordPefect to read it. It doesn't matter. And since MS Office reads many other Word Processor files, people who do use these other Word Processors can and sometimes do send their documents in the natiive formats of those processors instead of export to .doc format. For many such documents, it doesn't matter much.
Also in most businesses, individual employees are not allowed to install executable applications on their computers. Firewalls screen out anything sent that looks like it might be an application. This makes the spreading of new viewing software a difficult proposition, unless it provides added value over what is already commonly available.
For practical use today, a VisioOOo reader is a solution in search of a problem. And VisioOOo reader in its current state, it is simply a probelm. Try VisioOOo yourself, and compare what it does in dsiplaying an .odt file compared to what free Adobe Acroboat reader does with a PDF file created from OpenOffice.org. Try one of the OpenOffice.org manuels. The PDF is displayed by Adobe Acrobat is essentially indistinguishable from the original. VisioOOo loses all complex formatting, all headers, footers, tables and so forth. And you can't even print from it. It makes the Open Document format look like garabage, and as an application VisioOOo looks like garbage.
Eventually, of course, presuming the Oasis Open Document format does catch on, there will be one or more common Open Dcoument readers that work well, whether deriving from an improved VisioOOo or crreated as an entirely different application. But if Open Document format does catch on, then almost every word processor will at ieast be able to import text in Open Document format. But since almost every computer will at least have a word processor. So there will be not be a great need for a separate viewer.
PDF actually caught on quite slowly until recently when third-party vendors began creating products that enabled you to create PDF files easily from almost any application, which was not really what Adobe had in mind. Adobe wanted everyone to buy the full Adobe Acrobat. And PDFs have largely replaced .doc format as standard for anything intended to be read only, including all kinds of reports that used to be printed and faxed to clients.
But that there are viewers out there for veiwing Word Perfect files and Word Pro files and so forth, does not make these formats any more (or any less) popular. |
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williamcheung
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Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Even MS Office, such a popular software also provide various readers for people to read the files created by MS Office. I don't see why OO doesn't do that and requires ppl to convert to pdf. And now I found the pdf conversion doesn't work with BIG5 fonts. That's even annoying. |
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Troodon
Newbie
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The question can be rephrased as follows: "IF I receive an .odf document and I don't want to install OOo just to read it, would it not be it be great if a ODF Reader were available?" The answer "Why don't you use PDF" is immature. But that is not suprising, given how another question is answered in the FAQ. Recently I was trying to figure out which formats I can open in Writer. The answer is something like: "Many. Just run File|Open in OOoWriter and you'll find out." Nice. |
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jeanweber
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 674
Location: Queensland, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Troodon wrote: | | The question can be rephrased as follows: "IF I receive an .odf document and I don't want to install OOo just to read it, would it not be it be great if a ODF Reader were available?" The answer "Why don't you use PDF" is immature. But that is not suprising, given how another question is answered in the FAQ. Recently I was trying to figure out which formats I can open in Writer. The answer is something like: "Many. Just run File|Open in OOoWriter and you'll find out." Nice. |
Chapter 3, "File Management in OpenOffice.org" in the Getting Started book lists the formats you can open and save to. I rarely work on the FAQs (I'm too busy doing other docs), but I'll make a note to copy the info from that chapter into the FAQ when I have time (which probably won't be soon).
Do keep in mind that volunteers write all of the documentation, FAQs, user guides, etc, so the quality is going to vary quite a bit. It's good when someone brings a deficiency to our attention.
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Get free PDFs of OOo user guides from http://documentation.openoffice.org
See also http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/
Printed copies http://www.lulu.com/opendocument |
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RealGrouchy
OOo Enthusiast
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| williamcheung wrote: | | Even MS Office, such a popular software also provide various readers for people to read the files created by MS Office. I don't see why OO doesn't do that and requires ppl to convert to pdf. And now I found the pdf conversion doesn't work with BIG5 fonts. That's even annoying. |
You're stuck in the wrong paradigm.
You think that because OOo creates the .odf file, only OOo can open it. That is how Adobe and Microsoft want you to think. They want you to be used to the fact that if you want to listen to your iTunes, you'll need an iPod.
Open Document files are different. They're designed specifically so that anybody with the technical prowess can create software to open it reliably (actually, pdfs are similar in this regard).
Taking the music analogy, OpenOffice.org is like a complex music generator (say, Nero) that will produce an .mp3 file. It will also open and play it for you, but its target market is people who want to have a full-feature music generator.
There is other software that will fit into a nice filesize and all it does is play your CD. This is targetted at people who simply want to listen to their music. Nero is an excellent music-creating program, but they don't bother putting out a "Nero reader", because it saves files in .wav, .mp3, and other similar formats--there are plenty of other programs that will play those already.
The same is true for OpenOffice.org. If you want a full-featured Open Document Format creator, download OpenOffice.org. If you want to simply read such a file, download an alternative.
That said, the problem that you raise[b] that many others also raise on this forum, is that [b]OpenOffice.org doesn't make this very clear:
Unfortunately, half the people say "there should be an OpenOffice.org reader", and the rest say "no, there's plenty of alternatives." Nobody addresses the fact that non-competing non-OOo Open Document Readers are not referenced anywhere on the main OOo download site.
Therefore, the policy suggestion that should come out of this is, have a link to external .odf readers to siphon off those people who don't need more than a reader. That is the thing that should be discussed.
- RG>
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dmayo2
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
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I tend to agree that something needs to be done to address the fact, that even a year later (of the start of this thread) Word can't open .odt. Because of this, the .odt format is still a niche among windows users.
I know that most of the users I send documents to only use Word because a). that's what's on their computer and they fear/don't want/don't care to install something else, b) they are at a company whose policy prohibits installing something that is not allowed, like OOo.
I don't have a problem sending a PDF to these people, but 90% of the time they need to edit the document, which basically rules out PDFs. So, I'm left with sending the file to them in .doc format.
So, for me this becomes a file issue. Too many copies of the same document laying around...I work in OOo because I like it, but if I save in .doc, OOo says that I may loose some formating. So, I have a important.odt, important.doc, and important.pdf.
Life would be much simplier if Word would open .odt -- too bad that MS has a paid lobbying staff to get states like Mass to ditch odt and stick with openXML.
I'll step down off my soapbox now, thanks for listening. |
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huwg
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bobharvey
Super User
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: Lincolnshire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| williamcheung wrote: | | Even MS Office, such a popular software also provide various readers for people to read the files created by MS Office. I don't see why OO doesn't do that and requires ppl to convert to pdf. And now I found the pdf conversion doesn't work with BIG5 fonts. That's even annoying. |
The MS reader was created so that people could read the documents without having to pay for office. It was part of the gag that microsoft used to get people to behave as though .doc was a standard. With OOo being free, there is no reason for people not to download it and install it.
If the built-in pdf converter is not working for you, how about printing to pdfconvertor or one of the other gpl's pdf pseudo-printers? |
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