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How do I use en dash?
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jchadd
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

I was recently told to use this in a paper and have no idea how to create it. Can someone please help me?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hold down the Alter key and type 0150 on the Numeric Keypad –
For the longer em-dash type 0151 —
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jchadd
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if I don't have a numeric pad, like on my laptop?
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acknak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insert > Special Characters
Use the "Subset" drop-down list to select "General Punctuation".
Somewhere near the upper left, you should see three long dashes: the first of these is the en dash. Click on it and check in the lower right of the dialog window, it should say "U+2013". Click OK and it will be inserted in your document. You can copy and paste it normally from there.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhikkhu Pesala suggestion only works in Windows (maybe Mac), but not in Linux/KDE. On your laptop you can turn the number pad on with a function key and then enter the numbers.

But inserting as a special character as acknak suggested should work in any OS and any keyboard.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autocorrect entries are also convenient, but they only work if the dashes are surrounded by spaces. The default Autocorrect option to replace dashes will replace text--separated by two hyphens—with an em-dash.

You can add autocorrect entries to replace 2 hyphens with en-dash and 3 hyphens with em-dash.

Replace " -- " with " – " and replace " --- " with " — "
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

jchadd wrote:
I was recently told to use this in a paper and have no idea how to create it. Can someone please help me?


Type a word a space and -- this should turn into an en dash. Type a word---word and you will get an em dash.

Note that the space en space is something that OOo does that does not seem normal usage to me as I would normally expect no spaces when using an en dash.

If you're on MS you can also install AllChars, http://allchars.zwolnet.com a handy little utility that will handle en dashes, em dashes and all sorts of accents and symbols.
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foxcole
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

jrkrideau wrote:
Type a word a space and -- this should turn into an en dash. Type a word---word and you will get an em dash.

I get an em dash (using the default autocorrect setting) typing a word--word (two hyphens instead of three).

jrkrideau wrote:
Note that the space en space is something that OOo does that does not seem normal usage to me as I would normally expect no spaces when using an en dash.

Most style guides do not allow spaces between the words and the en dash, saving the en dash for specific uses such as connecting dates to form a range, or creating a complex compound where half of the compound is a word that already contains a hyphen. The AP Stylebook is entirely unclear about (and sometimes contradictory in) its punctuation rules and examples. It makes no distinction between em and en dashes (which puzzles me because in most publications that follow AP style, line length is tightly controlled, and the two dashes are very different in length and application... so that seems like it would be important).

Spaces around an en dash are, as far as I can discern, never advisable, and I've no idea where the developers came up with their default AutoCorrect rule. I strongly support Bhikkhu's suggestion to change those AutoCorrect entries.
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kurvenkampf
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

foxcole wrote:
Spaces around an en dash are, as far as I can discern, never advisable, and I've no idea where the developers came up with their default AutoCorrect rule. I strongly support Bhikkhu's suggestion to change those AutoCorrect entries.


Okay, I've lurked for long enough: it's a Brit thing. Quote from OUP's New Hart's Rules (p.79) (a sort of bible for typesetters and copyeditors in the UK, based on the Oxford University Press housestyle):

Quote:
Many British publishers use an en rule with space either side as a parenthetical dash, but Oxford and most US publishers use an em rule.


Judith Butcher's Cambridge Handbook of Copyediting (p.151) has:

Quote:
en rules for parenthetical dashes are always spaced, en rules for sense are usually closed up.


You say tomato and I say tomato ;-)

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acknak
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe then in this case, the best approach would be to define variables to hold the different strings for specific cases (e.g. Paren_dash and Sense_dash) so the actual characters could be changed easily.

I wish Writer had better support for this kind of situation (e.g. variables can't hold formatted text) but it should work fine in this case.
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foxcole
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

kurvenkampf wrote:
Judith Butcher's Cambridge Handbook of Copyediting (p.151) has:

Quote:
en rules for parenthetical dashes are always spaced, en rules for sense are usually closed up.


You say tomato and I say tomato Wink

Well, style guides never do completely agree with each other! Very Happy

The Oxford Style Manual (Oxford University Press, 2003) paragraph 5.10.9 (p. 140) does not allow spaces around the en dash. The majority of style guides I've seen or have on hand recommend this style, but as you've noted, some do. It should be a matter of choice for the user. In a sense, it already is because users can choose to change the AutoCorrect setting.
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

foxcole wrote:
jrkrideau wrote:
Type a word a space and -- this should turn into an en dash. Type a word---word and you will get an em dash.

I get an em dash (using the default autocorrect setting) typing a word--word (two hyphens instead of three).


Opps , LyX uses three --- not Writer

Quote:

jrkrideau wrote:
Note that the space en space is something that OOo does that does not seem normal usage to me as I would normally expect no spaces when using an en dash.

Most style guides do not allow spaces between the words and the en dash, saving the en dash for specific uses such as connecting dates to form a range, or creating a complex compound where half of the compound is a word that already contains a hyphen. The AP Stylebook is entirely unclear about (and sometimes contradictory in) its punctuation rules and examples. It makes no distinction between em and en dashes (which puzzles me because in most publications that follow AP style, line length is tightly controlled, and the two dashes are very different in length and application... so that seems like it would be important).

Spaces around an en dash are, as far as I can discern, never advisable, and I've no idea where the developers came up with their default AutoCorrect rule. I strongly support Bhikkhu's suggestion to change those AutoCorrect entries.

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bobharvey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acknak wrote:
I wish Writer had better support for this kind of situation (e.g. variables can't hold formatted text) but it should work fine in this case.

Interesting.
I proposed preset content for styles some time ago. Issue 40885 . Perhaps there is a case for adding your idea to that. Or perhaps it should be another issue.
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acknak
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting suggestions Bob--thanks.

Looks like some enhancements are already in the works: New Features planned for OpenOffice.org
Quote:
Planned Features for 2.x/3.0 Release
* Basic API & UNO support for bibliographic enhancements
o New field type to support formatted text
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jrkrideau
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: How do I use en dash? Reply with quote

kurvenkampf wrote:
foxcole wrote:
Spaces around an en dash are, as far as I can discern, never advisable, and I've no idea where the developers came up with their default AutoCorrect rule. I strongly support Bhikkhu's suggestion to change those AutoCorrect entries.


Okay, I've lurked for long enough: it's a Brit thing. Quote from OUP's New Hart's Rules (p.79) (a sort of bible for typesetters and copyeditors in the UK, based on the Oxford University Press housestyle):

Quote:
Many British publishers use an en rule with space either side as a parenthetical dash, but Oxford and most US publishers use an em rule.


Judith Butcher's Cambridge Handbook of Copyediting (p.151) has:

Quote:
en rules for parenthetical dashes are always spaced, en rules for sense are usually closed up.


You say tomato and I say tomato Wink

kurvenkampf


Aha so that's were it comes from! I cannot remember ever seeing the space en dash but I may just have not been paying attention.
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